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Delphic P-51 Gear

Warbird Digest


WWII Bombers
The North American P-51 Mustang
Test your P-51 memory, knowledge and research ability!
P-51 Who
Status:
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Solved by:

 
Closed  
 
by Lawrence DiRicco  
Dave Lindauer  
Reader's Responses:

David Lindauer
11/29/2001 17:18
A beautiful and unique civil paint scheme and a sad story... This is 45-11620, N2872D, which was destroyed in the fatal crash of owner William Penn Patrick on June 9, 1973. I've seen the crash listed as at Clear Oak, CA and at Lake Country, CA, but don't know any of the details. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details?
MustangsMustangs
12/31/2001 12:00
That is correct Dave! Anyone have any more details for us?
Brian Rose
10/02/2008 12:49
Here is more detail for your website. My grandfather is Elton Garner, who owns the ranch adjacent to the former William Penn Patrick ranch in Clearlake Oaks CA. My grandfather witnessed the wreck of the above P51 Mustang in 1973, and was the first person to the crash site. He pulled Penn Patrick and his French Co-Pilot from the aircraft, both who were deceased. The plane had wrecked on a rock bluff that was accessible with a Jeep on an old cat fire trail, which my grandfather used to get to crash site. I heard the story a number of times when I was a kid. It is my understanding that Penn Patrick and his Co-pilot were flying up an down Long and High Valley most of the day. The P51 was traveling at or near full speed when my grandfather indicated that the pilot (either Penn Patrick or the co-pilot) had pulled up to fly over the mountain, and had apparently blacked - out due the speed and pitch of the airplane. At that point, the plane rolled over on itself and went into the mountain at full power. Parts of the fuselage and tail can be seen from our ranch in Long Valley, which is adjacent to Penn Patrick's ranch in High Valley, Clearlake CA.
Brian Rose
10/02/2008 13:14
Also killed aboard the aircraft was Christian George Hagert, Penn's Managing Director from Finland. I am not sure he was french or not, but here is the information.
Gregory McGinnis
10/03/2008 16:17
My name is William Gregory Hart Mcginnis. My mother, Marian McGinnis, was engaged to William Penn Patrick at the time of his death. The location of the plane crash was Clearlake Oaks, Ca. Bill Patrick had taken off from his High Valley Ranch airstrip with Christian George Hagert in the back jump seat. They had made a few high speed passes over the big house on the hill and lost power and crashed. My mother and I were at the scene within a few hours along with a bunch of other people. The plane crashed into the side of a hill approx. 300 yards down from a dirt road. For obvious reasons, they would not let us down to the actual crash site. There was no fire, and not much left of the plane. About a month after the crash I hiked down to the scene. There was a large hole and a few small pieces of the plane left. I brought a piece back with me and still have it to this day. I have tried to find out more about this accident. Some say it wasn't an accident and the plane had been tampered with. I have never seen the accident report but very much would like to. If anyone has any information I would appreciate all I can get.
Gregory McGinnis
10/03/2008 16:23
... I have never seen the accident report but very much would like to. If anyone has any information I would appreciate all I can get.I'm afraid Mr Rose's story is not true. There was nothing left of the plane, Bill Patrick or Christian Hagert. With all due respect, they had to use DNA to determine which of the few parts they found belonged to who.
Ben Gay III
12/18/2008 19:34
William -I was WPP's best friend for many years, and president of his several companies from 1964 to 1971. Your mother was Bill's secretary/close friend during the time I was with both of them. But, even as president of Bill's various companies, I always felt it was better to "clear a trip" down the l-o-n-g hallway to Bill's office from mine through your mother, as she was like a "beautiful bulldog," protecting him from "whatever"! If you'd like to know more about what it was "really like" back in those days, shoot me an email at bfg3@directcon.net, or just call me at (800) 248-3555. Regardless, understand that she was a beautiful and wonderful woman! All the best! BFG3Ben Gay IIIWWW.BFG3.COMbfg3@directcon.net(800) 248-3555
airrace fan
07/22/2009 11:42
Just a voyeur who stumbled onto this. Comment on "nothing left of plane". I am pretty sure I talked to a Mustang owner who said "You'd be amazed what good stuff that is left of a wreck. I bought what was left of 'the guy whose other plane crashed into Ferrels Ice Cream's Mustang and got many useful parts."
Bret Fitzgerald
09/08/2009 15:13
Wow. My uncle Jack was the Ranch Boss for WPP's High Valley Ranch. Went there often and lucked into rides in both the P-51 and his Stearman bi-plane. I recently read that Patrick had big time legal troubles around the same time of the crash. Suicide?
Ben Gay III
10/19/2009 21:46
Bret - Your Uncle Jack was a good man. We all spent many happy hours with him. But as for Bill committing suicide (with another person on-board), not a chance! Not on his worst day. In the last few years of his business/personal life, Bill had many troubles. And when I was called about the crash, suicide crossed my mind - but not after I learned that there was another person with him. And as for all of the other "conspiracies," they are nonsense. Bill was a victim of his own recklessness. Period. So much so that I refused to fly with him again a couple of years before his untimely death. All the best! BFG3Ben Gay IIIWWW.BFG3.COMbfg3@directcon.net(800) 248-3555
Jim Ferrante
02/17/2010 17:14
My name is Jim Ferrante. My father Louis Ferrante was a HM Distributor and owned the Holiday Magic training center and CRS in the William Penn Hotel in Pittsburgh. I have good memories of HM and met Mr Patrick personally. During the summer of 1972 I was the youngest to attend an LDIY class at High Valley Ranch. During camp I became very ill and another student Kimbery Ann Allen died. I was with her when she died there. I am looking for information anyone me be able to give me about Mr Patrick, HM and High Valley Ranch. My father knew William Patrick, remembers Marian McGinnis, Ben Gay and speaks highly of all. Mr Gay if your offer to know what it was "really like" back then could be extended to me it would be appreciated. Please contact me. Respectfully, Jim Ferrante IIjimferrante@ferranteinteriors.com
Ben Gay III
02/18/2010 20:23
Jim - We just returned from Norway and received your voice mail message, which caused me to revisit this site and read your post. I'll call you in the next day or so to discuss whatever you'd like and/or are curious about. I do, however, remember your father well! Lou was always one of my favorite Holiday Magic characters - literally a laugh a minute! - and an excellent salesman to boot! When we talk, ask me how LDI and the modern human development/personal growth business (EST, Life Spring, PSI World, etc, etc, etc, etc) really began. The myths about it are truly amazing & amusing! The truth is actually much simpler. All the best! BFG3Ben Gay IIIThe ClosersWWW.BFG3.COM bfg3@directcon.net (800) 248-3555
Marc Roth
06/08/2010 00:41
Shock and Awe. I'm kind of shocked that nobody is expressing any awe over how Thomas D. Willhite also died in a plane crash flying on the same ranch.

Anyway I definitely want to own and fly my own airplanes. However, Just In Case - I think I'll stay away from the curse of owning that ranch now.
Bobby
08/09/2010 22:15
In some of the discussions about the crash of 72D, it has been suggested that the plane had been tampered with. I had just gone to work at Aeroschellville when the crash occurred. Very shortly afterward, we acquired WPP's Decathelon, which had been tied down next to 72D. My employer had just brought the plane over from Gnoss, and asked me to go through the plane and check it out. When I checked the fuel drains, I was amazed to find massive quantities of water coming out. I don't know how Bob was able to get the plane from Gnoss to Schellville without the engine quiting. The thing is, where the two planes had been tied down, next to each other, there was a water spiggott with a garden house. I saw this directly myself. Rumors were flying at the time. A power failure and no fire in the Mustang crash, from where I was standing, certainly sounded suspicious to me. Go figure!
Brad Jackson
11/18/2010 22:14
Hi, I am Bill Patrick's nephew from NC. I can attest to the info provided at the time of the accident, that no bodies were found. They did find small fragments like teeth. I remember spending a few weeks with Gregory and Marion after this happened and the details were discussed over and over again. Marie (Bill's wife) supposedly flew to Switzerland with the casket of Bill's passenger however. He was more a dare devil than suicidal.
Richard Jauch
11/24/2010 06:12
Hello: Is there a person of knowledge of Mr. William Penn Patrick's family connected to this site? I lived next door to a young woman, at that time, in San Rafael and thought about her and her husband and son when reading through the loss of P-51 Mustangs, my favorite plane of all time. Thank you.
Mike De Castro
01/09/2011 12:03
I was a line boy for Mr Patrick at Spectrum Air in the early 70s. I washed the Mustang for him the day before his tragic crash. After this, I quit Spectrum Air and joined the Air Force.
John Warner
01/27/2011 22:05
...became aide to WPP when Lewis left, worked until a few weeks before the F-86 episode. Returned to work for Marie a few days after the ranch tragedy. Confirm the info that only fragments were found after the accident.
Camille Mather
02/07/2011 16:37
Hi Ben, Jack Mather and our family were on the ranch from 1969 to 1973. Jack as you know was ranch manager and Bill and Jack did all sorts fun thing riding there motorcycles and horse back riding and Bill had dinner in our kitchen many times. All our kids had rides in his planes and I even rode in the P-51. I was not on the ranch that morning but remember seeing it on the TV.what a shock. Got back to the ranch that evening and Marie had been there and left.what a tragedy.
Camille Mather
02/07/2011 16:44
Ben I forgot to tell you that Jack Mather died on October 24,1996. I kinda like to think that Jack and Bill are flying around up there. I ofter run into Marrion McGinnes and she is fine. Miss those two very much.
Ben Gay III
02/09/2011 14:55
Camille - Although we communicated privately earlier today (Great to hear from you after all these years!), I thought I should acknowledge your missive here, too! (So I didn't look like an unresponsive clod!) I was very sorry to hear that Jack had passed away. As I told nephew Bret a few months ago, Jack was one of my favorites. In fact, since I was busting my tail supporting the ranch and WPP's many other "hobbies," I sort of envied him his life up at the ranch! Same for Art Stagg, our corporate pilot! Stay well and in touch! I wish you . . .
All the best!
BFG3 Ben Gay III
The Closers (800) 248-3555 WWW.BFG3.COM bfg3@directcon.net
J. Pape
03/03/2011 16:39
My name is Jason Pape, the grandson of Fred Pape who took over as President of HM while Bill was running his gubernatorial campaign. I was wondering if anyone remembered anything about him or knew anything by chance, since everyone seems to have questions and answers.
Ben Gay III
03/03/2011 23:16
Jason -

I'm your man! Your "Grandfather Fred" was the president of Holiday Magic (1965-1968), just before I was. And he was one of my early/favorite mentors.

Although it ended badly between us (he was fired, I was promoted), for reasons I won't bore you with, the sheer joy he'd experienced from the births of your mother/father/aunts/ uncles/cousins/nieces/nephews (sorry, I don't know where you fit in the many-layered "Fred Pape Family Tree" - he was on his sixth wife when we lost contact!), Fred was responsible for my wife and me having Ben Gay IV in 1968. If you're curious about how he made that happen, feel free to ask!

Anyway, Fred was (and still is, I hope!) really something! Like Frank Sinatra, he could be an absolute tyrant/jackass one minute, the kindest, most woderful person on earth the next.

But he was always a class act, complete with his jockey-like stature, perfect tailor-made suits (he looked like he just came off of the top of a wedding cake) and his ever-present gold Dunhill cigarette lighter.

And I could go on and on and on . . .

All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
(800) 248-3555


ODUS HAYES
04/06/2011 09:58
HELLO, I WAS AIDE TO WPP FROM JAN,1970 TO 1973, LEFT JUST BEFORE THE CRASH.I ALSO WENT UP IN THE P-51, WHAT A RIDE HE GAVE ME. IT WAS GREAT WORKING FOR MR. PATRICK, I LEARNED A LOT. MET A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE. SOME ARE STILL FRIENDS, LIKE JOHN HART. I SEE WHERE ANDY BERLINER IS DOING VERY WELL WITH HIS COMPANY. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE MARIE IS AND HOW SHE IS DOING? SHE HAS ASISTER, RUTH THAT I KNEW WELL AND LIKED HER A LOT. ANYONE KNOW WHERE SHE IS? MI=ORE SOON ODUS
Susan McNeal Velasquez
07/16/2011 21:19
Dear Ben,

I 'stumbled' upon this site and want you to know how it makes my heart smile to read your kind responses to a history that is tucked away in the memories of so many people. Your contribution to that time was monumental and we all grew by leaps and bounds. It is impossible to know how the Holiday Magic legacy has evolved but it certainly served as a source of so many of the leadership modalities that exist today. William Penn-Patrick lives on through so many of us and I for one, am forever grateful for the gifts I received from you, Bill, John Hart, and the many other people I was fortunate enough to interact with during my involvement. Thank you. Warmly, Susan

Susan McNeal Velasquez
SusanVelas@aol.com
susanvelasquez.com

Ben Gay III
07/26/2011 17:51
Dear Susan,

Good to hear from you! And thank you for your very kind words! Know that I am a long-time member of your Appreciation Society, too!

Hard to believe that, as of this writing, WPP has been gone 38 years and, were he alive, would now be 80 years old! But I know he'd smile if he knew we were still talking about him and those times after all these years. In fact, and as usual, I talked about him and his impact on my life in a seminar I did at Lake Tahoe just last weekend.

Stay well and in touch, young lady. And help me keep the flame we all helped ignite alive!

Love and best wishes,
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
(800) 248-3555

Susan McNeal Velasquez
08/12/2011 13:54
Dear Ben, I think it would be a terrific idea to write the 'family tree' of how many groups originated from the Holiday Magic personal development trainings including LDI, Mind Dynamics, and even the Success Teams. It is interesting that so few people really know the genesis of the movements that have impacted both the business and personal development models that are available today.
My eldest daughter, Lisa (who you so generously helped when she contacted you after finding your book "The Closer") said something thought-provoking the other day. She said: "Mom, it has been so long since the original training concepts were presented, that it seems like it is time to go 'back to basics' because a lot of people today are ignorant of even basic responsibility principles." Anyway, I have enjoyed your writing style just through these posts, so thought I'd put an encouraging vote in for the possibility of sparking the topic of your next book! With Love, Susan

SusanVelas@aol.com
susanvelasquez.com

Ben Gay III
04/17/2012 18:10
Looks like we've about said it all, so I won't be checking back here on a regular basis.
However, if anyone posts anything they think I could answer/ help with, please post it here . . . but then shoot me a "heads up" email at bfg3@directcon.net so I can come back here, read it and respond.
Those were interesting times, changing the lives, directly and indirectly, of millions of people all around the world - whether they ever heard of William Penn Patrick, Holiday Magic et al, or me!
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
(800) 248-3555
Maggie Garjian Giono
05/15/2012 16:22
To Jim Ferrante,
I was an instructor on the Survival Trip and was there when you were there. I just bumped into the infamous Ben Gay up here in Placerville and he suggested I visit this site. I would like to talk to you and give you any answers you may need. You are welcome to call me at 530-303-3010, I look forward to your call or email.
Blessings,

Maggie

Ben Gay III
05/16/2012 20:32
Maggie -
Since I see no sign of Jim having checked in here in over two years, I'd suggest you also email him directly (see his post).
All the best!
Ben Gay III
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
jla
06/28/2012 10:39
For those with an interest in William Penn Patrick I would suggest reading his biography still available as a used book which is titled with his name. I would also recommend reading "The Pit" by Gene Church. It's about Patrick's leadership seminar (LDI) which was extremely intense both physically and emotionally. Like the Navy SEALS training meets Tony Robbins.
Rob Pyle
10/02/2012 11:24
Ben,
I go back to 1973 with WPP and Werner Erhard ........my primary relationship was with Warner during the time just before he and WPP split and EST was founded. Very interesting times ........I would love to hear the myths surrounding these amazing movements, what happened to Warner, his son, etc.? I was planning to go to the "program on the ranch " shortly after WPP died.
Rob
Ben Gay III
10/02/2012 14:01
Rob -
I also received your voice mail, so I'll call you to discuss those days. It's way too much to type here . . . at least with my limited skills!
By the way, you already know the myths. I'll tell you the simple truth as to how it all began.
All the best!
Ben Gay III
WWW.BFG3.COM
Robert M. Barber
05/26/2013 11:46
I was a General Distributor in Holiday Magic in 1974 in Washington DC. That was a high everyday. What an experience. If Ben Gay the III started it back up I would be the first to join.
Ben Gay III
05/26/2013 12:41
Robert,
Thank you for the kind words and for your phone call today! You brought back many fond memories of those days.
If I ever restart Holiday Magic, you'll be the first person I call . . . but don't wait by the phone!
Please stay well and in touch!
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
Gregory McGinnis
06/12/2013 15:04
Hello everyone,

It has been some time since I have visited this website. These posts bring back so many great memories. Many of the stories I tell my sons today have to do with time spent up at High Valley Ranch with Jack and Camille, and all the kids (Jackie, Sheila, Chris, Peter, Kim, Monday and Tammy).

I remember Lewis, Odus, and many of others mentioned throughout these posts. It was a great time in my life that I will never forget. I often think about Marie, Mary and William. William and I spent a lot of time on the yacht and up at the ranch together when we were younger. I hope they are all doing well.

I take my family up to Clearlake a couple of times a year to visit my mother. Every time I do, I drive up to High Valley to go by the ranch and visit the crash site.

I want to wish everyone well and thank you for keeping the memories alive!

William Gregory Hart McGinnis

Ben Gay III
06/13/2013 21:02
Greg -
Good to hear from you again! Although you were not yet born, your mother was a very important part of those days. I hope she is still well and prospering!
All the best!
Ben
"The Closers" &
"Sales Closing Power!"
WWW.BFG3.COM
Sam King
08/22/2013 01:00
My wife an I took the PSI7 seminar up at the Ranch in 1978. At that time, we were given the "PSI7 Manual". It was in a hard bound blue cover. It was difficult to read because it was typed in all capital letters and not broken up into easily read paragraphs. We were also given Tom D. Willhite's new "PSI7 Manual" written by TDW and studied from TDW's Manual. I didn't take Men's Leadership up at the Ranch until 2005 when I became interested in being actively involved in PSI again and have been actively involved ever since. PSI is having its 40th anniversary celebration at Principia at the Ranch in the first week in October this year. There will probably be about 500-600 people there (and over 100 from Hawaii where my wife and I live). It was only after I took Men's Leadership in 2005 that I went back to the original hard cover blue PSI7 Manual. I was confused by the history of the writer being given at the beginning, but finally realized that the Manual was written by WPP (at first I thought it was an earlier version of a book written by TDW - the Manual itself doesn't mention WPP's name). I took some time to edit the form of the Manual into readable paragraphs with headings (didn't change a single word of the Manual itself). TDW and PSI acquired the copyright to the Manual. I gave a copy of my edited form version of the WPP Manual to Bob Proctor one year at Principia. I don't know if he ever took the time to read it. If he did, he would have discovered that much of the Manual is a chapter by chapter (same order) tracking of Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich." Proctor carries an old dog-eared copy of "Think and Grow Rich" around with him and refers to it in his talks all the time. Interestingly, even though "Think and Grow Rich" obviously influenced WPP, WPP does not mention Hill at all in his Manual nor does he list "Think and Grow Rich" as one of the recommended reading books at the end of the Manual. While Hill was alive, he gave out 4 awards to people who had most incorporated his philosophy of personal achievement into their lives. WPP was the 4th person.

One of the earlier responses above mentions the fact that TDW's plane crashed on the Ranch in 1983, 10 years after WPP's plane crashed on the Ranch in 1973. Mrs. Willhite moved TDW's crashed plane to WPP's crash site, so anyone who visits WPP's crash site today (my wife and I have been there several times - it's not that easy to find) will see the crash site, parts of WPP's plane at the site and strewn all up the hillside, and TDW's plane at the crash site. It's amazing history.

Ben Gay III
09/06/2013 19:30
Good to hear from you, Sam!

It's always interesting to read the impressions of those who came later and know only the myths and legends about those times.

For instance, should we ever meet in person, be sure to ask me how WPP got into Dr. Hill's book in the first place and why, after they'd both passed, he disappeared from the later/current printings.

As WPP's best friend for several years and the CEO of his several companies, I'm not lessening him in any manner (second only to my father, he was my most important mentor) . . . but the real truth is always much more interesting.

All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM

Sam King
09/22/2013 00:27
Hi, Ben. Actually, I remember speaking to you once on the phone, and you told me a little about how WPP came to be in Hill's book. As you say, it really doesn't diminish the effect WPP has had on humanity. The Philosophy is still valid in spite of the shortcomings of all of us who pursue it.
Ben Gay III
10/26/2013 17:42
This hasn't much to do with the P-51 crash, but for those of you who were really part of those times, I'm sorry to report that Odus Hayes (WPP's last personal assistant) emailed me to report that John Hart has passed. John was Vice Chairman of the Board for U.S. Universal/Holiday Magic/etc. and one of the smartest people I've ever known. Sleep well, old friend.
Roy Clemans
03/03/2014 16:39
Just watched the 2014 "Academy Awards" presentations which reminded me of my employment with STA-POWER, one of the many companies under Holiday Magic's "Corporate Umbrella" . Every day I worked for SP was like winning an Oscar. A movie should be made of Mr. Patrick and his colorful sidekicks, i.e., Roland Nosara and his beautiful personal twin "aides, Mr. Patrick's American Eagle which he kept secretly caged in his office, actor, Robert Cummings - his bi-plane and vitamin line, Alexander Taylor's expensive men's suits & attire, and the STA POWER "Excaliber" Company car (which I retrieved from another state where it was abandoned by a STA POWER Executive who "flew the coup" with the STA-POWER formulas and hope of creating his own "spin-off" 'mouse milk" engine additive. A million stories and memories of this flamboyant company and its numerous "flashy" wanna-bee sales executives are a movie waiting to be made. Its cast of characters was endless! My work with STA-POWER involved the never-ending creation of sales promotions, contests, and related incentives for the company's distributors. I also handled the publicity for the HM "Moon Over Miami" conclave at Hollywood, FL. Employment with any of Mr. Patrick's companies was fun-filled with excitement, creativity, promise, hope, and possible achievement. Certainly a memorable and fond chapter in my life.
Ben Gay III
03/11/2014 21:30
Good news, Roy! The movie you've hope for is in development!
All the best!
Ben Gay III
Kathy Remati
08/06/2014 23:53
Mr Gay,

Do you remember Mr Gene Hoffman from Cleveland? Did he leave the country to escape legal action against the pyramid scheme? i am his step daughter and was researching a few things that were kept from me as a child. Would love your help.

Thank you,
Kathy
Ben Gay III
08/09/2014 14:57
Kathy -

Although we also communicated privately via email, I just read this post and realized you might've been writing in the past tense. Is Gene still among us?

All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
Yolanda Garcia
08/15/2014 17:15
Hi Mr. Gay: I worked for Mr. Willian and Mrs. Marie Patrick for 5 years babysitting William P. Jr. I lived with them in their home located in Tiburon, CA. I remember them dearly and I have so many wonderful memories. I remember like it was yesterday when I left, two weeks before the tragedy, Mr. Patrick contacted me to make sure everything was going ok with my school since I was very young at that time, he was a kindhearted man. I lost contact with Mrs. Patrick in 1977 after my wedding, she was actually my maid of honour! I am deeply happy to read all these posts and to finally find someone who was close to the Patrick's family. Do you know anything about Mrs. Patrick?? or William P. jr?? I would love to get in touch with them.
I appreciate your help and communication with me.

Sincerely,

I. Yolanda Garcia
Ben Gay III
08/15/2014 17:59
Yolanda -
I remember you!
Sorry to tell you this, but Marie was killed in an accident on the San Rafael/Richmond Bridge several years ago.
Lisa is protected by/living with a Catholic organization in Washington or Oregon.
Will Jr. (aka "William Penn Patrick III" in the music business) was playing/working in the Bay Area the last I heard. I talked with his son (WPP's "grandson") a few times a couple of years ago.
Seems that, except for the lessons and memories we learned and created together, the Patrick family's part of that era is all but "gone with the wind."
Hope that helps you fill in some of the blanks!
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
Yolanda Garcia
08/17/2014 20:11
Mr. Gay,

Let me tell you that I am shocked and sad to learn about Mrs. Marie's tragic death. Last thing I heard was that she remarried. I was also going to asked about Lisa, but now I know and just hopeful that she is ok. If you learn anything else about William jr. please keep me posted.

I appreciate all your information.

Regards,

Yolanda
Jeffrey Lewis Knapp
10/26/2014 13:21
Hi Ben.

I was a cosmetic general distributor in Holiday Magic in the early 70's and love hearing any stories you have about Mr. Penn Patrick. Please send anything you have to me in Arizona. I have kept in touch to this day with people I met in Holiday Magic. Pet Bethay has passed away here in Phoenix. I have never heard anything about Ernie Delco but would like to. My sponsor was David Tung. Mike Payne was a distributor that I met here in Phoenix and we keep in contact. Mike found me on Face Book after 40 years.

Grady Hughes who was involved then is someone I keep in touch with today. I visit him at his home and I write, on paper, to him and his sister Charles. She was named after her father. Grady is at the point in his life where he has the onset of dementia. I met Mr Penn Patrick at an HM meeting in LA at some point in time. I have a copy of the ticket I used for admission. Paul Channel was killed in an auto accident. Earl Barnett has not been around for awhile. He has either passed away or moved. Linda Larkey is a professor at ASU. Please write when you get the time.

Thank you Sir,

Jeffrey Lewis Knapp

------------------
Jeffrey Lewis Knapp
10/26/2014 14:18
Hi Ben

I wanted to follow up on my post. I needed to add this. I am so grateful to Holiday Magic Cosmetics. This company was so positive. I felt strongly and was totally committed to the concepts and philosophy of Holiday Magic. There are two ways to respond to the statement “how are you today”. Not bad or very good. Why compare yourself to the word bad. Always compare your being to the word GOOD. To this day I respond “Very Good Thank You”. I was involved in Mind Dynamics and was taught the power of self suggestion is all mighty powerful and your life is shaped around how you think of yourself. God plays a big roll in it too. My experience with Holiday Magic was wonderful and positive. I started in sales and working with people in Holiday Magic Cosmetics and to this day that is my involvement. Retail Sales and Banking, two careers for me spanning over forty years and loving every moment. I want to work as long as I can and do the best I can. Holiday Magic Cosmetics was the start in my life for what I have done as an adult in sales and I often reflect on all the positive things that have happened to me because of Holiday Magic Cosmetics. If Buddy Holley had lived, he was killed in a crash with a passenger and the pilot. If William Penn Patrick had lived, he was killed in a crash with his co-pilot. If Mike Payne’s dad had lived, he was killed with a passenger and the pilot in a plane crash in southern Arizona in the early 50’s today the world would be a different and better place to live. Thank you God, thank you Holiday Magic Cosmetics, thank you William Penn Patrick for everything you have done in my life.

Jeffrey Lewis Knapp
Ben Gay III
10/29/2014 22:25
Thank you, Jeff! Good to hear from you after all these years!

With all your kind words, I know Bill (WPP) is smiling down on you . . . as are so many of the other folks who were part of our movement that have since passed on.

In my travels, I still meet people all around the world who measure their lives from before they joined us and after they joined us. Sort of like BC and AD. Me too!

As for me, it seems odd that I've gone from being "the youngest this and that" to "one of the last living links to those days and wonderful people.

All the best!
Ben Gay III
THe Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
Norman Oss
11/21/2014 22:30
Thanks Ben for all the responses. I knew many of the details listed here, as I was Roland's personal secretary and many times spent with WPP. I called you about a year ago and loved the conversation. It was very interesting to read all of these responses. I hope Mirian is well as I knew her from work of course. The bird wasn't really kept in WPP's office, it had its own room. He loved to sit on the railing just outside WPP's office. I have pictures of him doing so. There were two, a tawny and an Imperial eagle. Genghis traveled with us on a few trips and made many wild impressions on people. I had to handle him. If any questions, I am on FB under Norman Oss. Thanks.
Ben Gay III
11/24/2014 16:55
Thank you, Norman!
Many people have stumbled on this site, telling me that it has helped fill-in so many blank spots for them. Please stay well and in touch!
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
bfg3@directcon.net
WWW.BFG3.COM
mikkoj
12/20/2014 17:21
kristian haget that died in the krash.. he was one of my fathers best friends.. i got my oneof my names after him..
Ben Gay III
12/21/2014 21:38
Then Kristian's memory lives on through you! Make him proud!
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
bfg3@directcon.net
WWW.BFG3.COM
Norman Oss
02/05/2015 02:15
I just read everyone's comments again and loved them. Brought back a lot of memories. I worked in the mailroom at HM for quite some time before becoming Roland's personal secretary, which was a big change for me. Wearing suits every day and traveling the world over was quite the thrill for me. I remember all of the LDI classes because I had to assist in setting them up, though I never took one. I always remember the eagles of course, as I was trained the handle them and take them on trips with us to places like NY and Chicago. Not easy taking a wild bird to giant ballrooms and cutting him loose to fly from the back to the front, where Roland had a glove and a piece of meat. Always brought the house down. I had the time of my life in those days, constantly on the go. I remember most of the people talked about on this site and once in awhile helping with WPP's kids. I was never involved much with the business end or being a distributor as such, just a young man barely out of the service and Vietnam and becoming a private personal secretary to Roland Nocera. Quite the man and I loved what I did. I have many stories from those days, some hard to believe, but I lived them up until WPP's death. Tragic loss and everyone was completely stunned. I still have my address book with hundreds of names of people who worked there and ones we always had to contact. I am also glad Ben Gay has commented on here. I remember him mostly when I was in the mailroom. I lived close by and will never forget 616 Canal Street. Anyone that has any questions from those days feel free to visit me on FB.
Ben Gay III
02/05/2015 22:32
Thank you for your additional input, Norman! Please stay well and in touch.
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
bfg3@directcon.net
WWW.BFG3.COM
William Patrick Jr
09/10/2015 23:03
William Jr can be found on YouTube. Enter 'Power of the Pen' music. He has multiple music videos. Last I heard he lived in the East Bay. He played in multiple Santa Rosa bands in the 1980's.Guitar and later keyboards. His mother Marie was killed when her stalled car was rear ended
Ben Gay III
10/07/2015 15:24
Thank you for the update on William Jr. I haven't seen him in 45+ years (the last time I took him and his sister Lisa horseback riding).
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
bfg3@directcon.net
WWW.BFG3.COM
Sylvia Dee
02/13/2016 15:21
Blast from the past! I spent 2 years of my 45 years in Corporate America at Holiday Magic. I spent a day on the Principia and I also spent a day up to the "ranch."

The whole organization (or lack of)was absolutely bizzare, run by a bunch of frat boys with not a business degree among them. But they had a Phd in pyramid schemes. I saw Roy Clemans wrote in. Remember the Retail Blitz Contest that Kay White dreamed up? Sell $1,000 worth of product and win a big, new 1973 color TV. Well, the distributors had learned well. They sold the same $1,000 worth of product to another distributor and another distributor, etc. We had more winners than bunnies in the rabbit hutch. White rescinded the contest. No payoff.

The Excalibur was orange, very flashy with no substance underneath, a metaphor for the whole business.

I remember when Bingham at an airshow in Sacramento flew one of Bill's antique planes into the Farrell's Ice Cream Shop on a Saturday afternoon killing 22 adults and children. Nocera herded us into the warehouse Monday morning to brief us with his spin.

The hand writing was on the wall. The SEC was moving in. A bunch of us had dinner together to contemplate our futures when the company would no doubt fold. Cliff said the only way Bill could get out of this mess was to fake his death and go to South America. A week later, WPP's famous accident.

A couple weeks after that Cliff was called at home Saturday morning by a flunky to go immediately to Gnoss Field where a plane was waiting to take him to the ranch. He complied and was taken to Nocera in the Hacienda and it was suggested in true Joisey Boy style that Cliff refrain from voicing his theory since he had such a lovely wife and young sons.

A couple of days later, Cliff went to the safe in now deceased WPP's office to retrieve documents for the Feds and the Legal Department and found two flawless diamonds. He pocketed the diamonds and had a ring made for himself and one made for his lovely wife.

And they're making a movie? Maybe they could use some scenes from "Wolf of Wall Street" to save money.
Ben Gay III
03/24/2016 22:02
Sylvia -

Thank you for your input.

Sorry for your experience, but based on the comments you made, you came after the "good days" and during the "Roland Nocera era," which was the reason(s) I left about 3 years before the end.

As you'll see from almost all of the comments before yours, there was a better time. Much better. Sorry you missed it!

Not knowing you and not wanting to get into a "tit for tat," let me just state that, if WPP went to South America after the crash, he went without his teeth, his major bones, and any money.

All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.et
Sam King
08/06/2016 21:43
I haven't visited this site in years. I didn't know people were still contributing. For anyone interested, WPP's Ranch (High Valley Ranch) has been "in the family" ever since he died, as it was acquired by Tom Willhite as the HQ for PSI. Since Mr. Willhite died in a plane crash on the Ranch in 1983, Mrs. Willhite (and Shirley Hunt) has been running PSI very successfully. This year she has created a new "happening" at the Ranch called "Summit" to be presented during the week of September 11. She says she'll be going back to the "old days" of Mind Dynamics, WPP, and Alexander Everett. She also recently announced to PSI grads that she's decided to sell the Ranch. End of an era? Beginning of a new one?
Ben Gay III
09/06/2016 13:55
Welcome back, Sam!

When the new owners of High Valley Ranch move in, I hope they bring industrial strength metel detectors with them. Rumor has it, "Thar's gold in them thar hills!" . . . if you know where to look!

All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
Lance Giroux
09/21/2016 01:41
I took PSI courses from January 1975--77. Became an instructor for PSI 1977, after personally under studying Tom Willhite, then moved to lead the instructor staff of the basic seminar department (known then as PSI IV) after a schism within the company, and the created its Men's Leadership Seminar in ''78 along with Bill O'Neil & Bob Lipske at the direction of Tom Willhite in order to solidify the "hit" that the company took resulting from the schism. Took over Tom''s duties at PSI 7 on 9/21/83, upon arriving at HVR just after he crashed his biplane during his "Red Baron" aerobatic demo - a "regular" part of PSI's recreation day activity at PSI VII at that time- and following that I became PSI's VP Instruction & Training, knew Jack Mather and liked him, & took people to visit both crash sites many times. Became a pilot myself while Tom was alive, and bought his Cessna 150 after he died, hangared it & flew it regularly at High Valley Ranch. There's a lot to PSI's practices and behind the scenes "goings on" that remains hidden from public discourse so that the company would continue. From personal daily contact I know that Willhite revered WPP, and patterned his own development on his memory. I resigned in '95 and since have continued to serve what I felt (and still do) was the essential message - minus corporate politics - serve human beings & resolve conflict peacefully
Ben Gay III
10/05/2016 15:29
Thank you, Lance. Appreciate your input. Stay tuned, interesting things are in the works!
Jason
10/08/2016 01:06
Wow, I am blown away! I got a call from my brother last night, who on a whim was researching my Grandfather, Fred, and came across your forum. Now, I had all but forgotten this article and the fact that I left the above comment back in 2011, and before today never had the chance to read your reply. First and foremost, thank you so much, Mr. Ben Gay III - reading your words brings tears to my eyes. As it turns out my father wasn't lying all these years!
My father was very close to my Grandfather, so it hit him hard after my Grandfather's passing in '94. However a fast life, coupled with a penchant for alcohol and cigarettes doesn't promote longevity, and sadly Fred's time ultimately came far too soon. I'm proud to say that my father see's a lot of Fred in me, the business side - NOT the flashy. When I left that comment back in 2011 I was living back home in Los Angeles. I have since moved to San Francisco and founded my own start-up, Go Host Yourself, that was almost instantly profitable.
It would be great to get you on the phone, I would love to hear more! I've re-read your words a thousand times already, they really hit home. I think all of us (MANY) grandkids would appreciate knowing more about our Grandfather, who has been gone for 22 years now. Our memories don't stretch as far, or as accurate, and I also believe you to be one of a very select few who know my Grandfather better than my old man. He'll get a real kick outta this!
Many thanks for your reply!!!I am tickled to no end. Kudos to you for continuing this site and with it their legacy's. WPP and Fred are smiling together somewhere in the cosmos knowing you keep them alive through your eloquent words and sharp memory.
Cheers,
Jason P.
Ben Gay III
11/25/2016 18:15
Jason -
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I only check the site(s) from time-to time!
Anyway, I'd love to talk to you sometime. Send me an email at bfg3@directcon.net and we'll set something up.
All the best!
Ben
WWW.BFG3.COM
Brad Jackson
06/18/2017 20:24
My name is Brad Jackson. I am the son of Frances, Bill Patrick's younger sister. I always got bits and pieces of the story about his death. I'd like to know more now that I am an adult and need to put thing in perspective. I once lived on the High Valley Ranch as a kid for about a year around 1969- 1972, not sure of the exact dates. I remember LDI. Many fond memories of riding motorcycles and hiking up to the Casa Matania , as i think the house up on the hill was called. I remember Jack and Camille Mather. Does anyone have any photos that they are willing to share of Bill, Marie , Lisa and William? Also any of Bill and Marian? All i have are some photos of his lear jet and his home in Tiburon. Uncle Bill used to take me and little William up in his sea plane, We'd land in Clear Lake or close to it if I remember correctly. My second time to California we stayed a few weeks with Marian and Greg in the summer after Bill died. These memories have stayed with me all my life and have intrigued me ever since I was little boy. Brad- visionaries2020@comcast.net
Ben Gay III
07/28/2017 17:02
Brad -

I remember your mother, having met her at least once. She shared the name "Frances" with my mother. And based on when you lived at High Valley Ranch, probably met you!

Shoot me an email at bfg3@directcon.net if I may answer any questions for you (read the previous posts for how I fit into the the personal/corporate history of Bill, Marie and the company).

Ben Gay III
Former President/Holiday Magic, etc.
WWW.BFG3.COM
Case Closed!
P-51 Mustang

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